Cost of BGSU Football

Discussion of the Falcon football team.

Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby guest44 » Thu May 28, 2020 8:44 pm

How about the 116K spent on equipment & uniforms by men’s basketball? I’m not sure Duke could pull that off.

In the 2020 audit we have several more unnecessary expenses coming. Hugers 70k raise & the raises of all of his staff. Also, the rent paid on the University of Miami’s arena to play Jacksonville in front of 200 people? They are spending like they are 2018 Buffalo & with a coach who is below .500 in MAC play for his career.

I’d prefer we don’t agree on much. It’s for the better.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby threestooges » Thu May 28, 2020 9:33 pm

guest44 wrote:How about the 116K spent on equipment & uniforms by men’s basketball? I’m not sure Duke could pull that off.

In the 2020 audit we have several more unnecessary expenses coming. Hugers 70k raise & the raises of all of his staff. Also, the rent paid on the University of Miami’s arena to play Jacksonville in front of 200 people? They are spending like they are 2018 Buffalo & with a coach who is below .500 in MAC play for his career.

I’d prefer we don’t agree on much. It’s for the better.


Agreed. :shock:
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby guest44 » Thu May 28, 2020 9:39 pm

Let me clarify, they are spending like they are 2018 Buffalo, just not on the opponents it would take to have that kind of season. Nor are they spending in the way it seems the gift was intended.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby guest44 » Fri May 29, 2020 10:37 am

https://www.bgfalconmedia.com/campus/10 ... 35df7.html

"We need more money for recruiting, and for getting better games," Frack said. "The coaches have been operating with one hand tied behind their back. Hopefully this will correct that. It won't be overnight, but I think the University will get there. If Butler can do it, if Gonzaga can do it -- if they can do it -- then by gosh Bowling Green can do it."

I don't think he mentioned anywhere that the money needed to go toward paying the coaches exponentially more money & spending less to get worse games. However, by spending less on games, it has allowed the coach to inflate his record somewhat & get a contract extension.

As of March 11th. KenPom had BG the 168th ranked team nationally. 6th best in the MAC. Bowling Green had lost 3 in a row, and was a 2pt underdog to Toledo in Cleveland.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby TommyG » Fri May 29, 2020 11:09 am

There is clearly a couple different groups of people on this site. There ones who don’t really know how the Athletic Department operates and form their opinions on the information/propaganda that BG and the MAC disseminates to the media and through press releases. Then there is a group that has a little info and knows that the department hasn’t been run correctly for years going back to Greg Christopher.
Personally I think BG Basketball is run fairly well. They probably spend more than they should in certain areas, but they also have an endowment to cover some of those expenses. I don’t necessarily think Huger is a great coach, but he has the team competitive in the conference and may just get a team to the tourney. Totally agree on the unnecessary extension...no reason to give a raise in that scenario.
BG football and BG hockey are extremely overrated programs. Football doesn’t bring in nearly the benefits some posters think...it’s nice to be FBS and most people want to keep it that way. Bottom line is we spend and spend on a program that hopefully is good for a 2-4 year stretch and then has to rebuild again. My biggest gripe is that there really is no payoff to all the spending. MAC Championship and what a bowl game on a Wednesday evening during XMas season? The beating a Big10 team is the dumbest goal ever.....you beat a legit opponent that is awesome, but beating a 4-8 Rutgers team isn’t all that exciting. Sorry.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby Falconwriter » Fri May 29, 2020 11:27 am

TommyG wrote:There is clearly a couple different groups of people on this site. There ones who don’t really know how the Athletic Department operates and form their opinions on the information/propaganda that BG and the MAC disseminates to the media and through press releases. Then there is a group that has a little info and knows that the department hasn’t been run correctly for years going back to Greg Christopher.
Personally I think BG Basketball is run fairly well. They probably spend more than they should in certain areas, but they also have an endowment to cover some of those expenses. I don’t necessarily think Huger is a great coach, but he has the team competitive in the conference and may just get a team to the tourney. Totally agree on the unnecessary extension...no reason to give a raise in that scenario.
BG football and BG hockey are extremely overrated programs. Football doesn’t bring in nearly the benefits some posters think...it’s nice to be FBS and most people want to keep it that way. Bottom line is we spend and spend on a program that hopefully is good for a 2-4 year stretch and then has to rebuild again. My biggest gripe is that there really is no payoff to all the spending. MAC Championship and what a bowl game on a Wednesday evening during XMas season? The beating a Big10 team is the dumbest goal ever.....you beat a legit opponent that is awesome, but beating a 4-8 Rutgers team isn’t all that exciting. Sorry.


The real difference between hockey and football SHOULD be endowments that pretty much pay for the program as a whole. BGSU has, at this time, an extraordinary number of former players in the NHL or as execs in the NHL. I would hope that there has been a concerted effort to get as many of these people as possible to pledge support for the program and then follow through. Whether it's by donations now or via estates (hopefully both), there should be enough firepower there to make sure the program is in good shape for decades. Football has nothing that compares. Neither does basketball.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby roguewarrior » Fri May 29, 2020 12:52 pm

guest44 wrote:How about the 116K spent on equipment & uniforms by men’s basketball? I’m not sure Duke could pull that off.

In the 2020 audit we have several more unnecessary expenses coming. Hugers 70k raise & the raises of all of his staff. Also, the rent paid on the University of Miami’s arena to play Jacksonville in front of 200 people? They are spending like they are 2018 Buffalo & with a coach who is below .500 in MAC play for his career.

I’d prefer we don’t agree on much. It’s for the better.


To be frank, who cares about the money? If as a student, you want every dime going to you, and nothing more, then take an on-line education. If you want to be part of a school that has sports teams, bands, cheerleaders, leading to a sense of campus , camaraderie and fun, then pay more for it. It’s really that simple. If you want to bitch about the cost of sports, go play chess and leave here. The last thing we need on a SPORTS site, is every amateur CPA debating fiscal responsibility. That said, it is obvious that a great season of high attendance would put FB in the black.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby guest44 » Fri May 29, 2020 1:00 pm

As a student, most dimes to pay athletics are coming from you, and going to administrators and coaches pockets. I want to be part of a school (where i went to school) that has sports teams. I'd prefer one where the administrators are competent though. No a great season won't put BGSU Football in the black but would be a very welcomed change. In fact it generally is the worst thing for it financially. The coach leaves for more money, BGSU plays a bowl game without the coach and loses, then pays an additional 25% or more to the new coach the following year.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby footballguy51 » Fri May 29, 2020 1:01 pm

roguewarrior wrote:
guest44 wrote:How about the 116K spent on equipment & uniforms by men’s basketball? I’m not sure Duke could pull that off.

In the 2020 audit we have several more unnecessary expenses coming. Hugers 70k raise & the raises of all of his staff. Also, the rent paid on the University of Miami’s arena to play Jacksonville in front of 200 people? They are spending like they are 2018 Buffalo & with a coach who is below .500 in MAC play for his career.

I’d prefer we don’t agree on much. It’s for the better.


To be frank, who cares about the money? If as a student, you want every dime going to you, and nothing more, then take an on-line education. If you want to be part of a school that has sports teams, bands, cheerleaders, leading to a sense of campus , camaraderie and fun, then pay more for it. It’s really that simple. If you want to bitch about the cost of sports, go play chess and leave here. The last thing we need on a SPORTS site, is every amateur CPA debating fiscal responsibility. That said, it is obvious that a great season of high attendance would put FB in the black.


Essentially, it's like paying tax. Sometimes you pay taxes for things you either don't use or don't agree with, but you pay them because you have to and because it goes to benefit other people or everybody.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby roguewarrior » Fri May 29, 2020 1:29 pm

Further, BG football/MAC sports/ etc are what they are. They vary in runs from great to poor...you are likely always an underdog to Bigs. You want to win every game- go to Duke or OSU. Otherwise, try to enjoy what it is, and savor the good times.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby guest44 » Fri May 29, 2020 1:33 pm

"Further, BG football/MAC sports/ etc are what they are. They vary in runs from great to poor...you are likely always an underdog to Bigs. You want to win every game- go to Duke or OSU. Otherwise, try to enjoy what it is, and savor the good times".

Totally fair points. However, if the financials don't get checked sooner than later, they won't exist at all. Administrators are supposed to be the checkpoints on that. Not part of the problem.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby BGSU33 » Fri May 29, 2020 3:57 pm

guest44 wrote:For the Football pays for all the other sports crowd... https://www.ohioauditor.gov/auditsearch ... c4EK0Sz-Ek


First off, let's be very clear with the information in this post. This info applies to BOWLING GREEN, it is NOT representative of all of the FBS schools - particularly the Power Five institutions. Using BGSU info and parlaying it to the "football pays for all the other sports" argument gets major holes shot through it immediately. The same can be said when those who declare how much money schools make because of their athletics programs. They often use schools such as Ohio State or Texas as their example, when in fact, they are not representative of the rest of the FBS at all. It's important to apply proper information to the proper topic. There are in fact many schools where their football programs do pay for existence and expenses of other athletics programs. BGSU is not one of them. Let's not compare apples and oranges when dealing with the topic.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby BGSU33 » Fri May 29, 2020 4:21 pm

threestooges wrote:
guest44 wrote:Can anyone give me suggestions as to how men's basketball spent $138,000 in recruiting in one calendar year?

http://ohioauditor.gov/auditsearch/Repo ... od_SAR.pdf

pg. 119 from the 2013 state audit before the Frack money arrived. Game guarantee money was slightly more in 2013 than 2019. The recruiting budget was 1/3 of what it is in 2019, and coaches salaries in 2013 were about half of 2019 salaries. Go back and read the articles about the Frack money.


If you & I agree on one thing -- and make no mistake, that's exactly the case. There is nothing else we agree on. Nothing. No. Thing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Use the cocktail stick -- it's that 138K does indeed seem like kind of a lot for men's basketball recruiting to spend in one year.

Now, let's go back to our normal lot in life -- you posting opinions that are directly opposite from nearly everyone else's opinions, and me rarely (if ever) posting.


I love BG basketball, but to say I'm embarrassed about where it stands and what it has failed to accomplish, even within the MAC, would be an understatement. BG has money coming into the program (primarily from Bill Frack) that no other MAC program can touch. BG also has the newest arena in the MAC. And still, BG remains the lone program from the MAC to have never, ever won the MAC Tournament - thus keeping the 1968 NCAA Tournament drought all but alive and well. It's beyond infuriating to me. Every single school in the MAC has won the damn MAC Tournament at least once, with some schools having won it as many as 6 and 7 times, and over half of the schools have won it multiple times, and yet, BG never has. When Frack made the pledge and the arena was built, all excuses went out the window. For years BG used the lack of funding and an old facility as a crutch for its shortcomings even among its peers. With the millions of dollars and new venue, the excuses ran out. I don't think its too much to expect for a program to win one measly title in 40 years! To me, that's a joke. Not one title in 4 decades? It's not like we're talking about the Big Ten or ACC here, we're talking about the MAC for crying out loud. Especially when it's now quickly approaching a decade where the influx of funding and venue have both been factored in. The men's basketball program will never get to where it wants to be until it finds a way to start winning MAC Tournaments. Period. The Ohios and Buffalos and Kent States and Miamis and Ball States all made their names and marks by doing one thing first - winning the MAC Tournament. It gave them their platforms to showcase their programs, and is the very reason BG hasn't been able to despite even having NBA and MAC POY players.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby hammb » Fri May 29, 2020 4:48 pm

BGSU33 wrote:
threestooges wrote:
guest44 wrote:Can anyone give me suggestions as to how men's basketball spent $138,000 in recruiting in one calendar year?

http://ohioauditor.gov/auditsearch/Repo ... od_SAR.pdf

pg. 119 from the 2013 state audit before the Frack money arrived. Game guarantee money was slightly more in 2013 than 2019. The recruiting budget was 1/3 of what it is in 2019, and coaches salaries in 2013 were about half of 2019 salaries. Go back and read the articles about the Frack money.


If you & I agree on one thing -- and make no mistake, that's exactly the case. There is nothing else we agree on. Nothing. No. Thing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Use the cocktail stick -- it's that 138K does indeed seem like kind of a lot for men's basketball recruiting to spend in one year.

Now, let's go back to our normal lot in life -- you posting opinions that are directly opposite from nearly everyone else's opinions, and me rarely (if ever) posting.


I love BG basketball, but to say I'm embarrassed about where it stands and what it has failed to accomplish, even within the MAC, would be an understatement. BG has money coming into the program (primarily from Bill Frack) that no other MAC program can touch. BG also has the newest arena in the MAC. And still, BG remains the lone program from the MAC to have never, ever won the MAC Tournament - thus keeping the 1968 NCAA Tournament drought all but alive and well. It's beyond infuriating to me. Every single school in the MAC has won the damn MAC Tournament at least once, with some schools having won it as many as 6 and 7 times, and over half of the schools have won it multiple times, and yet, BG never has. When Frack made the pledge and the arena was built, all excuses went out the window. For years BG used the lack of funding and an old facility as a crutch for its shortcomings even among its peers. With the millions of dollars and new venue, the excuses ran out. I don't think its too much to expect for a program to win one measly title in 40 years! To me, that's a joke. Not one title in 4 decades? It's not like we're talking about the Big Ten or ACC here, we're talking about the MAC for crying out loud. Especially when it's now quickly approaching a decade where the influx of funding and venue have both been factored in. The men's basketball program will never get to where it wants to be until it finds a way to start winning MAC Tournaments. Period. The Ohios and Buffalos and Kent States and Miamis and Ball States all made their names and marks by doing one thing first - winning the MAC Tournament. It gave them their platforms to showcase their programs, and is the very reason BG hasn't been able to despite even having NBA and MAC POY players.



I'm with you man. I'm probably one of the biggest BG hoops fans on this site. I'm a much bigger fan of BG hoops than any other sports program. I've had season tickets since I graduated, rarely missed a game in my 4 years as a student, and have been attending games since before I was in kindergarten. I have a strong love for that program. My 4 year old has that same connection already, always dreaming he's Juice or Dylan Frye while I have to be the Dragons (no idea why he so vividly remembers games against Tiffin).

But to say that program has underachieved is an understatement of the century. Like I pointed out earlier our total revenues (almost entirely due to Frack) outclass many other MAC hoops programs; but we're not using that money to make ourselves a better program. Paying more money to coaches just to pay more money makes no sense. Jans took a boatload to land (and an extra Frack donation to pay for it). But then with his firing we just went out and gave the same contract (and now a raise) to a guy who had no demand. I like Huger, nice guy. He's not completely incompetent. But for what he's paid we need more results.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby Roll Along! » Fri May 29, 2020 6:20 pm

hammb wrote:
BGSU33 wrote:
threestooges wrote:
guest44 wrote:Can anyone give me suggestions as to how men's basketball spent $138,000 in recruiting in one calendar year?

http://ohioauditor.gov/auditsearch/Repo ... od_SAR.pdf

pg. 119 from the 2013 state audit before the Frack money arrived. Game guarantee money was slightly more in 2013 than 2019. The recruiting budget was 1/3 of what it is in 2019, and coaches salaries in 2013 were about half of 2019 salaries. Go back and read the articles about the Frack money.


If you & I agree on one thing -- and make no mistake, that's exactly the case. There is nothing else we agree on. Nothing. No. Thing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Use the cocktail stick -- it's that 138K does indeed seem like kind of a lot for men's basketball recruiting to spend in one year.

Now, let's go back to our normal lot in life -- you posting opinions that are directly opposite from nearly everyone else's opinions, and me rarely (if ever) posting.


I love BG basketball, but to say I'm embarrassed about where it stands and what it has failed to accomplish, even within the MAC, would be an understatement. BG has money coming into the program (primarily from Bill Frack) that no other MAC program can touch. BG also has the newest arena in the MAC. And still, BG remains the lone program from the MAC to have never, ever won the MAC Tournament - thus keeping the 1968 NCAA Tournament drought all but alive and well. It's beyond infuriating to me. Every single school in the MAC has won the damn MAC Tournament at least once, with some schools having won it as many as 6 and 7 times, and over half of the schools have won it multiple times, and yet, BG never has. When Frack made the pledge and the arena was built, all excuses went out the window. For years BG used the lack of funding and an old facility as a crutch for its shortcomings even among its peers. With the millions of dollars and new venue, the excuses ran out. I don't think its too much to expect for a program to win one measly title in 40 years! To me, that's a joke. Not one title in 4 decades? It's not like we're talking about the Big Ten or ACC here, we're talking about the MAC for crying out loud. Especially when it's now quickly approaching a decade where the influx of funding and venue have both been factored in. The men's basketball program will never get to where it wants to be until it finds a way to start winning MAC Tournaments. Period. The Ohios and Buffalos and Kent States and Miamis and Ball States all made their names and marks by doing one thing first - winning the MAC Tournament. It gave them their platforms to showcase their programs, and is the very reason BG hasn't been able to despite even having NBA and MAC POY players.



I'm with you man. I'm probably one of the biggest BG hoops fans on this site. I'm a much bigger fan of BG hoops than any other sports program. I've had season tickets since I graduated, rarely missed a game in my 4 years as a student, and have been attending games since before I was in kindergarten. I have a strong love for that program. My 4 year old has that same connection already, always dreaming he's Juice or Dylan Frye while I have to be the Dragons (no idea why he so vividly remembers games against Tiffin).

But to say that program has underachieved is an understatement of the century. Like I pointed out earlier our total revenues (almost entirely due to Frack) outclass many other MAC hoops programs; but we're not using that money to make ourselves a better program. Paying more money to coaches just to pay more money makes no sense. Jans took a boatload to land (and an extra Frack donation to pay for it). But then with his firing we just went out and gave the same contract (and now a raise) to a guy who had no demand. I like Huger, nice guy. He's not completely incompetent. But for what he's paid we need more results.


Notably, a year ago the head coaches in the MAC ranked BG as the 8th best men's basketball job in the conference. https://watchstadium.com/mac-college-ba ... 1-10-2019/

You can quibble with the rankings, but these are the "experts" who should know where it is easiest and hardest to win. If we are the 8th best job (or even close to it), then you can't argue with the success Huger has had recently.

Everyone wants to win the MAC and we all think 40 years is WAY TOO LONG to not make it, but the Bill Frack money has only been there for like five years and we've steadily gotten better year after year after year. We are headed in the right direction and now have to be considered one of the premier programs in the MAC. How many teams have finished in the top 3 in the MAC in each of the past two seasons?
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