Cost of BGSU Football

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Cost of BGSU Football

Postby guest44 » Wed May 27, 2020 5:24 pm

For the Football pays for all the other sports crowd... https://www.ohioauditor.gov/auditsearch ... c4EK0Sz-Ek
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby hammb » Wed May 27, 2020 7:13 pm

This is GREAT information, so happy to finally have it, thanks for sharing.

Football costing students 3-4x as much money as basketball or hockey is really a painful pill to swallow. And the fact that they only have 42k in contributions!? Wow...
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby TommyG » Wed May 27, 2020 9:48 pm

Not surprising at all...very interesting. At least we are a powerhouse.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby guest44 » Thu May 28, 2020 7:24 am

The football part was about what I expected. Just reckless spending.

The basketball part is what I found most interesting. What is the Frack money being spent on? Not to get better opponents like he desired. Toledo was the Bill Frack Challenge game last year. Can Bowling Green make the tournament before the coaches and administration dip in to his money for perks?
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby hammb » Thu May 28, 2020 8:19 am

guest44 wrote:The football part was about what I expected. Just reckless spending.

The basketball part is what I found most interesting. What is the Frack money being spent on? Not to get better opponents like he desired. Toledo was the Bill Frack Challenge game last year. Can Bowling Green make the tournament before the coaches and administration dip in to his money for perks?


It's BG in a nutshell, and as a basketball fan first and foremost I find it maddening.

The money Mr. Frack generously put up to help BG rise to bigger things is sadly only helping them spend less student dollars on the program. Bill Frack's donation alone contributes 2/3 of our basketball revenue. I looked up a few of our conference brethren up on that auditor site. His donation alone represents nearly double the revenue generated by the Akron basketball, about the same as the entirety generated by Miami basketball, and a couple hundred thousand more than UT generated for basketball. BG's total basketball revenue of $1.2m blows away the revenue that any of these other schools. Hell, it's more than Akron & Toledo's basketball revenue COMBINED.

And where is that money going? Our basketball expenses are below Akron's and UT's, a couple hundred thousand above Miami's. Now obviously all of these programs are still costing students money. And the Frack donation has helped the basketball program compete among the best in the MAC without dipping as much into student fees as these other schools, but they should come right out and admit that is how they're using the money. They sure as hell haven't used it to bolster the budget and invest in the program more than our conference mates have.

I suppose when I look at these audits, I should give BG some credit. They are running a leaner football program than Miami, Akron, or UT. All of these football programs are sucking millions from student fees to justify their existence, which really hurts the rest of the athletic departments. UT somehow operated their football program with a net loss of over $8 million last year (more than our entire expenditures).

I'm not one of those folks that thinks you should cut sports that don't carry their weight. Intercollegiate athletics was never supposed to be a profit center for universities. It was supposed to be an avenue to help campus culture, bring people together to support their alma mater, etc. At some point though, you really have to start wondering if spending millions of student dollars on football is doing that.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby guest44 » Thu May 28, 2020 8:24 am

How can men’s basketball spend 138k on recruiting? It’s 12 players plus a few family members on the bench. That’s 20k less than what they spent on guarantees for actual opponents. It’s also 2/3 of what football spends for a roster nearly 8x the size. Are they recruiting Australia and just not getting the players?
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby Schadenfreude » Thu May 28, 2020 10:47 am

guest44 wrote:For the Football pays for all the other sports crowd... https://www.ohioauditor.gov/auditsearch ... c4EK0Sz-Ek


I'm not sure anyone here takes this position. And I'm not sure exactly what part of that state audit has captured your interest.

It's a fact that Bowling Green's membership in an FBS conference generates millions of dollars of revenue that would not otherwise be available to our athletic department. This includes the MAC's ESPN contract, the opportunity to play Power 5 programs for large guarantees, and BCS revenue sharing. All of that disappears if Bowling Green leaves the MAC for a non-FBS conference.

FBS football is expensive. I would guess it does not pay for itself here (or at most G5 schools). But it probably generates more revenue than any other Falcon team. In this sense, it pays more of its own way than nonrevenue sports like baseball, which are nearly all expense.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby guest44 » Thu May 28, 2020 11:20 am

"I'm not sure anyone here takes this position. And I'm not sure exactly what part of that state audit has captured your interest."

I literally posted above multiple times what part of the state audit captured my interest.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby MarkL » Thu May 28, 2020 11:27 am

The big takeaway I took:
Men's Basketball contributions: 843,213
Hockey contributions: 111,326
Football contributions: 42,545

Now most people donate to the Falcon Club general fund, which is nearly a million. That's where I mostly donate. But when you donate, say, 500 to football, that is over 1% of annual football specific contributions.

The takeaway: football badly needs a major donor(s). Basketball has the Frack fund. A good man he was. Hockey has all the major donors that stepped up in 2008/9. Football is the biggest expense and needs the same.

Really good info, thanks for posting 44.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby hammb » Thu May 28, 2020 11:50 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
guest44 wrote: But it probably generates more revenue than any other Falcon team. In this sense, it pays more of its own way than nonrevenue sports like baseball, which are nearly all expense.


Sure it generates revenue and baseball doesn't.

But that revenue is dwarfed by the insane costs of FBS football. To me, the only numbers worth comparing at these sports is the final tally of what it is costing students to play that sport. In that sense it's costing 3-4x as much to play football than it is just about any other sport. And this is the case with us already trimming football expenses to lower figures than seen at Miami, Akron, or UT.

That's what part of this is interesting, unless you just want to be purposely obtuse. Our football program's only real revenue stream is guarantee games. Games where we have to offer ourselves up to a beating just to TRY and make the finances look too awful. We have almost no football specific contributions. Our ticket revenue is meh, and as much as you like to keep spouting that ESPN contract it's a pittance, and it includes ALL sports (along with the necessary costs of producing those events that we so gladly offered to pay for).

The bottom line is MAC football may generate more revenue than any other sports, but it's not nearly enough revenue to put a dent into the costs. It is costing easily 3-4x as much money to play football as it does nearly any other sport we offer. You're OK with that because clearly anything it costs is justified to keep saying we're an FBS football program. I'm inclined to guess that others disagree.

And I say all this readily admitting that as bad as those financials look, it's actually not quite as bad as I expected.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby Schadenfreude » Thu May 28, 2020 1:57 pm

hammb wrote:Our ticket revenue is meh, and as much as you like to keep spouting that ESPN contract it's a pittance, and it includes ALL sports


ESPN might air another game here and there in other sports, but it is pretty clearly paying the MAC for football content. (If you find that the Horizon Conference or the Summit is getting that kind of money from ESPN or another network, I'll stand corrected.)

Look, the issues here are so much bigger than Bowling Green. The entire MAC -- indeed, most of the G5 -- faces similar financial challenges when it comes to football. Either the G5 is going to figure this out collectively, in partnership with the rest of FBS, or not. We will see what happens.

For now, Bowling Green is in the MAC, which is where we belong. We've had a lot of success in this conference. We are just five years removed from a MAC East threepeat and knocking off Big Ten teams. We can get back to that level.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby guest44 » Thu May 28, 2020 2:54 pm

Can anyone give me suggestions as to how men's basketball spent $138,000 in recruiting in one calendar year?

http://ohioauditor.gov/auditsearch/Repo ... od_SAR.pdf

pg. 119 from the 2013 state audit before the Frack money arrived. Game guarantee money was slightly more in 2013 than 2019. The recruiting budget was 1/3 of what it is in 2019, and coaches salaries in 2013 were about half of 2019 salaries. Go back and read the articles about the Frack money.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby hammb » Thu May 28, 2020 3:26 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:
hammb wrote:Our ticket revenue is meh, and as much as you like to keep spouting that ESPN contract it's a pittance, and it includes ALL sports


ESPN might air another game here and there in other sports, but it is pretty clearly paying the MAC for football content. (If you find that the Horizon Conference or the Summit is getting that kind of money from ESPN or another network, I'll stand corrected.)

Look, the issues here are so much bigger than Bowling Green. The entire MAC -- indeed, most of the G5 -- faces similar financial challenges when it comes to football. Either the G5 is going to figure this out collectively, in partnership with the rest of FBS, or not. We will see what happens.

For now, Bowling Green is in the MAC, which is where we belong. We've had a lot of success in this conference. We are just five years removed from a MAC East threepeat and knocking off Big Ten teams. We can get back to that level.


I don't disagree with your sentiment. BG does belong in the MAC. BG can have, has had, and will most likely again have success in this conference.

I also agree with your notion that the ESPN revenue we do get is largely attributable to football, and to a lesser degree Hoops as well. I continue to say, however, that the revenue is not nearly what it's made out to be. Because the deal includes ALL sports (and we are obligated to put all sports on there) we are eating a lot of production costs to stream many of those sports. I do agree it's a great opportunity for students to get their feet wet with broadcasting, but fact remains, it's a cost that seems to be hidden.

Most importantly, I don't disagree at all with saying this problem goes beyond BG. In fact, as I pointed out, BG has actually done a better job keeping football expenditures in check than other teams in our conference. And, by offering ourselves up 2x instead of many teams' 1x we are bringing in some revenue to try and offset things. Still, saying it's a problem across all of G5 (which is true) does nothing to address the issue. Just because there are so many other programs that are taking even more money from their students than BG is to play FBS football doesn't mean it's ok. I don't think it's a good thing for any of these schools, and I'm still inclined to believe the best long term solution is to admit this is a fool's game and have the schools get together and cap expenses. I'm not as familiar with the other G5 leagues as the MAC, but the fact it appears to take between $4-8million in student fees to fund FBS football in the MAC tells me we need to really step back and think about what we're getting for that money.

The truth is that the cost of playing FBS football, if we continue to let the "free market" decide, is going to keep rising. If history is any indication our revenues will not be rising with it; which means MORE student money going to offset those costs. At what point is it not a good use of student dollars?
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby FalconTurf » Thu May 28, 2020 4:49 pm

The football program is a major promotional activity for the university in the form of Homecoming and the other events associated with hosting football. Is it worth $4 - 8 million for promotion? That would get you 2 - 4 Super Bowl advertisements but no human contact. I think if it is used correctly to interact with alums, the community and recruiting new students it has value just like an advertisements, brochures or magazines that promotes the university. At the same time $4 million for ONE or TWO GAMES that "naturally" draw with limited effort per year (Homecoming and an opponent of note - usually from up the road) seems pricey. If the university is going to have such an expenditure they had best improve the game day experience while working to make 3 or 4 games a major event. Calling it band day, community day or such with a handful of cheap tickets and few pictures on Falcon Vision is not enough. I look at what the Mud Hens are attempting to do in downtown Toledo along with off season events is exponentially more aggressive than our athletic department has attempted. It takes money to make money and it takes money to make it an event.

For a while the education department was outside the stadium promoting themselves with a reading camper/bus. Other departments entertained their alums as well. That was a start. I truly believe to make athletics worthwhile every college within the university needs to promote themselves as well as be promoted at athletic events such as football, basketball, and hockey since they have the biggest crowds and spend the most money. Nice video boards and sound systems at those venues could be justified.

And when promotions don't work the way you thought work on improving it, DON'T QUIT!

And my final pet peeve from attending events - if the crowd doesn't show dry your eyes and enjoy the ones who came that day. Make the personal connections.
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Re: Cost of BGSU Football

Postby threestooges » Thu May 28, 2020 8:33 pm

guest44 wrote:Can anyone give me suggestions as to how men's basketball spent $138,000 in recruiting in one calendar year?

http://ohioauditor.gov/auditsearch/Repo ... od_SAR.pdf

pg. 119 from the 2013 state audit before the Frack money arrived. Game guarantee money was slightly more in 2013 than 2019. The recruiting budget was 1/3 of what it is in 2019, and coaches salaries in 2013 were about half of 2019 salaries. Go back and read the articles about the Frack money.


If you & I agree on one thing -- and make no mistake, that's exactly the case. There is nothing else we agree on. Nothing. No. Thing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Use the cocktail stick -- it's that 138K does indeed seem like kind of a lot for men's basketball recruiting to spend in one year.

Now, let's go back to our normal lot in life -- you posting opinions that are directly opposite from nearly everyone else's opinions, and me rarely (if ever) posting.
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