@ Akron (2/11)

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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby Globetrotter » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:41 pm

JohnFloyd4Life wrote:Duh, don't know why I forgot Swingle was a transfer.


Very little impact so far. I actually don't think he's bad. i think we are not using him right. Pound the ball to him for ten minutes a game. Let him foul out. Whatever. He will get fouls against his man and beat up their little posts. Then send in the quicker guys.
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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby mbenecke » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:45 pm

Globetrotter wrote:
JohnFloyd4Life wrote:Duh, don't know why I forgot Swingle was a transfer.


Very little impact so far. I actually don't think he's bad. i think we are not using him right. Pound the ball to him for ten minutes a game. Let him foul out. Whatever. He will get fouls against his man and beat up their little posts. Then send in the quicker guys.


Globe, I kinda like the idea of Swingle playing bully ball.

I think the kid has a lot of potential.
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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby Globetrotter » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:51 pm

mbenecke wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:
JohnFloyd4Life wrote:Duh, don't know why I forgot Swingle was a transfer.


Very little impact so far. I actually don't think he's bad. i think we are not using him right. Pound the ball to him for ten minutes a game. Let him foul out. Whatever. He will get fouls against his man and beat up their little posts. Then send in the quicker guys.


Globe, I kinda like the idea of Swingle playing bully ball.

I think the kid has a lot of potential.


This is what Bill Bellichick would do. You have 10 puzzle pieces. Figure out how to use all 10. We just shoot threes. It's mind numbing.
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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby Roll Along! » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:15 pm

Globetrotter wrote:
mbenecke wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:
JohnFloyd4Life wrote:Duh, don't know why I forgot Swingle was a transfer.


Very little impact so far. I actually don't think he's bad. i think we are not using him right. Pound the ball to him for ten minutes a game. Let him foul out. Whatever. He will get fouls against his man and beat up their little posts. Then send in the quicker guys.


Globe, I kinda like the idea of Swingle playing bully ball.

I think the kid has a lot of potential.


This is what Bill Bellichick would do. You have 10 puzzle pieces. Figure out how to use all 10. We just shoot threes. It's mind numbing.


We have attempted the 8th most 3 pointers in the MAC.
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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby TommyG » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:51 pm

Roll Along! wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:
mbenecke wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:
JohnFloyd4Life wrote:Duh, don't know why I forgot Swingle was a transfer.


Very little impact so far. I actually don't think he's bad. i think we are not using him right. Pound the ball to him for ten minutes a game. Let him foul out. Whatever. He will get fouls against his man and beat up their little posts. Then send in the quicker guys.


Globe, I kinda like the idea of Swingle playing bully ball.

I think the kid has a lot of potential.


This is what Bill Bellichick would do. You have 10 puzzle pieces. Figure out how to use all 10. We just shoot threes. It's mind numbing.


We have attempted the 8th most 3 pointers in the MAC.


Maybe, but it “seems” like all we do is shoot 3s and that is the problem according to Globe
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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby Globetrotter » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:25 am

Roll Along! wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:
mbenecke wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:
JohnFloyd4Life wrote:Duh, don't know why I forgot Swingle was a transfer.


Very little impact so far. I actually don't think he's bad. i think we are not using him right. Pound the ball to him for ten minutes a game. Let him foul out. Whatever. He will get fouls against his man and beat up their little posts. Then send in the quicker guys.


Globe, I kinda like the idea of Swingle playing bully ball.

I think the kid has a lot of potential.


This is what Bill Bellichick would do. You have 10 puzzle pieces. Figure out how to use all 10. We just shoot threes. It's mind numbing.


We have attempted the 8th most 3 pointers in the MAC.


6th.

We just shoot threes is an overstatement, but the offense relies too heavily on threes.

In the losses they are 46-172 for 26.7%
In the wins they are 148-411 for 36%
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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby Roll Along! » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:02 am

Globetrotter wrote:
Roll Along! wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:
mbenecke wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:
JohnFloyd4Life wrote:Duh, don't know why I forgot Swingle was a transfer.


Very little impact so far. I actually don't think he's bad. i think we are not using him right. Pound the ball to him for ten minutes a game. Let him foul out. Whatever. He will get fouls against his man and beat up their little posts. Then send in the quicker guys.


Globe, I kinda like the idea of Swingle playing bully ball.

I think the kid has a lot of potential.


This is what Bill Bellichick would do. You have 10 puzzle pieces. Figure out how to use all 10. We just shoot threes. It's mind numbing.


We have attempted the 8th most 3 pointers in the MAC.


6th.

We just shoot threes is an overstatement, but the offense relies too heavily on threes.

In the losses they are 46-172 for 26.7%
In the wins they are 148-411 for 36%


How does that compare to other teams when they win/lose? It seems obvious that for the most part teams play better when they win then when they lose. I would assume almost every team shoots worse in losses over the course of a season than they do in wins. But I honestly don't know if that shooting percentage difference is greater than what most teams tend to see in wins and losses.
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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby Globetrotter » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:10 am

Roll Along! wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:
Roll Along! wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:
mbenecke wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:
JohnFloyd4Life wrote:Duh, don't know why I forgot Swingle was a transfer.


Very little impact so far. I actually don't think he's bad. i think we are not using him right. Pound the ball to him for ten minutes a game. Let him foul out. Whatever. He will get fouls against his man and beat up their little posts. Then send in the quicker guys.


Globe, I kinda like the idea of Swingle playing bully ball.

I think the kid has a lot of potential.


This is what Bill Bellichick would do. You have 10 puzzle pieces. Figure out how to use all 10. We just shoot threes. It's mind numbing.


We have attempted the 8th most 3 pointers in the MAC.


6th.

We just shoot threes is an overstatement, but the offense relies too heavily on threes.

In the losses they are 46-172 for 26.7%
In the wins they are 148-411 for 36%


How does that compare to other teams when they win/lose? It seems obvious that for the most part teams play better when they win then when they lose. I would assume almost every team shoots worse in losses over the course of a season than they do in wins. But I honestly don't know if that shooting percentage difference is greater than what most teams tend to see in wins and losses.


Great point. I am not that bored yet.

Regardless, to me it seems like when they start struggling they just give up and shoot threes. Like how in the NFL a team will abandon the run.
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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby hammb » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:57 am

Unfortunately the analytics on basketball shot selection are VERY telling. It is very difficult to be a good team nowadays and NOT rely on the 3 pointer. Obviously the one shot that is preferable is a layup/dunk, but outside of truly elite teams nobody can rely on those either. I'm not 100% convinced that it's GOOD for basketball, but that's pretty much where the game has gone.

What sticks out to me from your numbers, Globe, is that even in our wins 36% isn't exactly shooting the lights out from deep. In fact, we currently rank 9th in the MAC in 3P%, which makes it sort of a minor miracle (again in this era of hoops) that we're among the best teams. Especially when you look and realize that we rank even lower in 2P% and Adj. FG%.

Basically, it doesn't matter what this team shoots, we are a shitty shooting team. Again, astonishing that you can be so inefficient on offense and still be among the best teams in the conference overall. We are (believe it or not) one of the better FT shooting teams in the conference, and that (along with pace of play) allow us to be in the middle of the pack in PPG. We're also one of the best rebounding teams in the MAC, which is a bit astonishing since I thought that would be a weakness going into the season.

Really this team is weird. They don't do most any of the things well that you would expect a good team to do. But they find ways to grind out games, and that has value. That's why, despite our record, we're wayyy down the list in any computer/advanced metrics. If we do find a way to get into the dance we'll probably be a 14-15 seed, because the numbers are not pretty, no matter what the record says.
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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby Matty B » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:38 am

hammb wrote:Unfortunately the analytics on basketball shot selection are VERY telling. It is very difficult to be a good team nowadays and NOT rely on the 3 pointer. Obviously the one shot that is preferable is a layup/dunk, but outside of truly elite teams nobody can rely on those either. I'm not 100% convinced that it's GOOD for basketball, but that's pretty much where the game has gone.

What sticks out to me from your numbers, Globe, is that even in our wins 36% isn't exactly shooting the lights out from deep. In fact, we currently rank 9th in the MAC in 3P%, which makes it sort of a minor miracle (again in this era of hoops) that we're among the best teams. Especially when you look and realize that we rank even lower in 2P% and Adj. FG%.

Basically, it doesn't matter what this team shoots, we are a shitty shooting team. Again, astonishing that you can be so inefficient on offense and still be among the best teams in the conference overall. We are (believe it or not) one of the better FT shooting teams in the conference, and that (along with pace of play) allow us to be in the middle of the pack in PPG. We're also one of the best rebounding teams in the MAC, which is a bit astonishing since I thought that would be a weakness going into the season.

Really this team is weird. They don't do most any of the things well that you would expect a good team to do. But they find ways to grind out games, and that has value. That's why, despite our record, we're wayyy down the list in any computer/advanced metrics. If we do find a way to get into the dance we'll probably be a 14-15 seed, because the numbers are not pretty, no matter what the record says.


"How can our offensive metrics be down and we're still winning?"

Idk, defense maybe?
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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby zete » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:05 pm

Matty B wrote:
hammb wrote:Unfortunately the analytics on basketball shot selection are VERY telling. It is very difficult to be a good team nowadays and NOT rely on the 3 pointer. Obviously the one shot that is preferable is a layup/dunk, but outside of truly elite teams nobody can rely on those either. I'm not 100% convinced that it's GOOD for basketball, but that's pretty much where the game has gone.

What sticks out to me from your numbers, Globe, is that even in our wins 36% isn't exactly shooting the lights out from deep. In fact, we currently rank 9th in the MAC in 3P%, which makes it sort of a minor miracle (again in this era of hoops) that we're among the best teams. Especially when you look and realize that we rank even lower in 2P% and Adj. FG%.

Basically, it doesn't matter what this team shoots, we are a shitty shooting team. Again, astonishing that you can be so inefficient on offense and still be among the best teams in the conference overall. We are (believe it or not) one of the better FT shooting teams in the conference, and that (along with pace of play) allow us to be in the middle of the pack in PPG. We're also one of the best rebounding teams in the MAC, which is a bit astonishing since I thought that would be a weakness going into the season.

Really this team is weird. They don't do most any of the things well that you would expect a good team to do. But they find ways to grind out games, and that has value. That's why, despite our record, we're wayyy down the list in any computer/advanced metrics. If we do find a way to get into the dance we'll probably be a 14-15 seed, because the numbers are not pretty, no matter what the record says.


"How can our offensive metrics be down and we're still winning?"

Idk, defense maybe?


At this point, Im not so sure we will continue to win.....especially on the road. But in Cleveland, on a neutral court, the title will be given to the team that shoots lights out. Will be interesting how MH approaches that weekend.
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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby hammb » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:10 am

Matty B wrote:
hammb wrote:Unfortunately the analytics on basketball shot selection are VERY telling. It is very difficult to be a good team nowadays and NOT rely on the 3 pointer. Obviously the one shot that is preferable is a layup/dunk, but outside of truly elite teams nobody can rely on those either. I'm not 100% convinced that it's GOOD for basketball, but that's pretty much where the game has gone.

What sticks out to me from your numbers, Globe, is that even in our wins 36% isn't exactly shooting the lights out from deep. In fact, we currently rank 9th in the MAC in 3P%, which makes it sort of a minor miracle (again in this era of hoops) that we're among the best teams. Especially when you look and realize that we rank even lower in 2P% and Adj. FG%.

Basically, it doesn't matter what this team shoots, we are a shitty shooting team. Again, astonishing that you can be so inefficient on offense and still be among the best teams in the conference overall. We are (believe it or not) one of the better FT shooting teams in the conference, and that (along with pace of play) allow us to be in the middle of the pack in PPG. We're also one of the best rebounding teams in the MAC, which is a bit astonishing since I thought that would be a weakness going into the season.

Really this team is weird. They don't do most any of the things well that you would expect a good team to do. But they find ways to grind out games, and that has value. That's why, despite our record, we're wayyy down the list in any computer/advanced metrics. If we do find a way to get into the dance we'll probably be a 14-15 seed, because the numbers are not pretty, no matter what the record says.


"How can our offensive metrics be down and we're still winning?"

Idk, defense maybe?


Well that is the easy answer but it's not really true either. We're 3rd from the worst in points allowed, although some of that is probably pace of play related. But I think we have all watched this team this year (especially ooc play) and noticed long stretches where we didn't even look like we were trying to guard anybody.

We're one of the worst shot blocking teams in the MAC and middle of the pack in steals. Our defensive rating, like our net rating, is in the bottom third of the conference. Despite our shooting numbers our offensive eating is actually in the top half of the league due in large part to the things that we are truly good at: protecting the ball and rebounding.

In scoring margin, were again middle of the pack. If we looked at league play only We're actually -9 in scoring margin despite our good overall record.

Bottom line this team is not good by almost any metric you'd use beyond record. Luckily record is the only metric that matters and if they can continue to grind out wins I'll be quite happy. There's a lot to be said for that skill, it might be the most important skill there is for a team. Still any look at the numbers would make somebody say that this team is not as good as their record and wouldn't be at all surprised to see a slide. Hopefully they continue to outplay their metrics and the point is moot. I personally don't give a rats behind if the selection committee makes us a 15 seed if we make it to the bracket!
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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby hammb » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:14 am

Also worth pointing out that, while I've had plenty of issues with Coach Huger over the years, there is something to be said for the combination of a team that protects the ball and speeds up the pace of play.

If you're consistently better than your opponent at protecting the ball, increasing the number of possessions makes that an ever bigger advantage.

Throw in the fact that we've consistently out executed our opponents in crunch time and it's a good explanation for our record.
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Re: @ Akron (2/11)

Postby BGSU33 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:30 pm

Akron won again tonight and again pulls even with BG. Zips are now 20-6 overall. Groce is a helluva coach in the MAC. After what he did at Ohio and what he’s now doing at Akron, he’s proven to be one of the MAC’s best. The guy clearly excels in this league.
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