This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby Globetrotter » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:55 pm

mbenecke wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:The thing that makes it so frustrating is that it doesn't seem to be a lack of talent. It seems to be a lack of basketball intelligence and effort.


I woudn't even say it's a complete lack of IQ/effort. Sometimes they show real flashes of brilliance - I think it's more of a lack of consistency in those areas than anything else.

If we could consistently be as good as we really can be, we would be the best team in the league. I think we have the highest ceiling of anyone in the MAC. Now, we don't always reach that ceiling, and THAT is what I feel is the issue here - We don't always know what BG team is going to show up.


I think you nailed it.
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby hammb » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:29 pm

One thing I think we need to be careful with is anytime we start talking about whether something is a talent issue or a consistency issue. The ability to physically do something with consistency IS talent. I mean, everybody on the team (and every team in D1 hoops) CAN make a three pointer. The guys who do so with the highest consistency are the most talented. Same goes for hitting a baseball...everybody in MLB can do it, the guys who do so most consistently are the most talented. So on and so on... To put it on this team...I've never seen a group of players more consistently miss bunny layups/tip-ins than this group. It happens every game we miss at least 4-6 points on what should be easy tapins for guys of the size that are taking these attempts. I know they all CAN make them, but our inability to do it consistently? That's talent...

Unless you're equating talent with pure athleticism (in which case I'd say I don't think we're at the top of the conference), the ability to consistently do good things IS talent.

At the same time, if the issue is the ability to consistently do things that are the MENTAL aspect of the game, I almost always point to coaching. If a team doesn't consistently show effort, certainly a good chunk of that is on the players, but ultimately it's the coaches' responsibility. If they're making mental errors, it's on the coach to either get them to stop making those errors or play different players who won't (and in the case of college hoops, recruit players who won't make those mistakes, etc).
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby drumstix2388 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:14 pm

Huger's records:

16-18, 5-13
13-19, 7-11
16-16, 7-11
22-12, 12-6
21-8, 12-4 (with two games and conference tourney left)

I get the frustrations with set-backs and some lapses in consistency, but it feels like Huger's consistent improvement here is being constantly placed on the backburner on this site. The talent is way better, the teams finish games much stronger, and the players really seem to have a stronger bond with every passing year. It's fine to be frustrated with a few things, but there is a significantly higher amount of negativity than positivity on here. This thread is a great example! It's longer than any of the other recent threads here. I've been really impressed with BG basketball this year and am so stoked on them having the best season since I have been a fan, and the best two year stretch since 90% of you have been fans. With his recent recruiting classes, I still think the best is yet to come, and I am really happy for Huger and his staff.
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby hammb » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:42 pm

I think Huger is doing a fine job, especially given where the program came from. I don't think he's doing a great job. I would not have given him an extension last year, but it is what it is. I think he's done a decent job recruiting; Turner & Plowden both being huge wins.

I think we all put the frustrations of 50+ years of futility on his shoulders, and it's unfair to him, obviously. I have only missed 1-2 home games this year, and have enjoyed the season immensely. As frustrating as it can be watching a team that doesn't seem to play to their potential every game, it's equally as exciting watching a team that consistently plays close entertaining games and pulls them out. However, it's very easy to watch the issues with Huger's teams and say stuff like, "He's not the coach to take us the next step." And while I'd agree he's not some future superstar head coach, it's far from guaranteed we could find a better coach. It's also true that you don't need the next superstar HC to win the MAC. Plenty of guys have led their teams to the NCAA tournament and not been the next Bobby Hurley.

We just need to get hot at the right time, which we have consistently failed to do for 50 years, Huger can hardly be faulted for the bulk of that. In reality he's been here 4 years and once we greatly overachieved to make a mini tourney run. Last year we made the finals only losing (in a tough game) to the best MAC team in 20 years. Put together another good tourney run this year and who knows. But it's not like Huger's teams have been historically awful come tourney time.
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby Diemilkweed » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:19 pm

I think some of us are equating talent with skill. Talent is the inherent ability to be good at something. You can have tons of talent and no skill because you've never worked at it. So every now and then, you look brilliant, but more often, you look lost.

If you have a bunch of skill in something, you won't see those peaks and valleys. You'll be much more capable of consistently doing the things you do, in part because you won't try stuff outside your skill set as often because you are skilled enough to know you cannot do it well.

Right now, i think these guys are more talented than they are skilled.

I also think Huger does not do a good job of getting them in the right state of excitability. Turner is the poster child for this. Comes out and plays the game well, but without aggression. Until there are 15 minutes left and we are down 12 and then JUICE shows up. The guy could obviously be more aggressive all game. He could make those end game shots in the beginning - if he was amped up enough. But he's not. And it's the coaches job to know this stuff and get each individual where they need to be.

That said, back to back 21+ win seasons for the first time since the 40's? He's earned the right for me to stay off his back for a while.
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby Redwingtom » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:51 pm

hammb wrote:To put it on this team...I've never seen a group of players more consistently miss bunny layups/tip-ins than this group. It happens every game we miss at least 4-6 points on what should be easy tapins for guys of the size that are taking these attempts. I know they all CAN make them, but our inability to do it consistently? That's talent...


LOL! I find myself saying this EVERY game I watch.
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby BleedOrange » Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:14 pm

Redwingtom wrote:
hammb wrote:To put it on this team...I've never seen a group of players more consistently miss bunny layups/tip-ins than this group. It happens every game we miss at least 4-6 points on what should be easy tapins for guys of the size that are taking these attempts. I know they all CAN make them, but our inability to do it consistently? That's talent...


LOL! I find myself saying this EVERY game I watch.


Ha! Laster, JTurner, Fields, Mattos.... NONE of these guys can finish worth a crap.
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby BleedOrange » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:13 pm

Nevermind winning the MAC tournament. Will team even win a game?
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby Globetrotter » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:15 pm

4-5 over the last 9 games, destined for a first game knock out in the tourney, Nobodies scared of this team. They went 12-6 in conference and were OUTSCORED by 20 points overall. That's incredible.
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby Hammer » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:19 pm

It will be a first round knock out and you will see players leaving along with Turner.
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby Hammer » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:20 pm

The icing on the cake will be us meeting Toledo in that first game and having them end our season.
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby Globetrotter » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:36 pm

Hammer wrote:It will be a first round knock out and you will see players leaving along with Turner.


Chandler, Gadson, Turner, Zeigler, Mattos-I could see any of them leaving.

We will regret not playing Chandler.
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby Globetrotter » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:40 pm

Globetrotter wrote:4-5 over the last 9 games, destined for a first game knock out in the tourney, Nobodies scared of this team. They went 12-6 in conference and were OUTSCORED by 20 points overall. That's incredible.


Just realized we finished the season last year 3-5.
2017 we lost 6 straight games to end the year
2016 finished 2-6
4-13 to end the year in 2015
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby Globetrotter » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:50 pm

In the Huger era they are 16-29 over the last half of MAC seasons. They have never had a winning record in any season during what is the most important part of the season other than the tournament.
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Re: This team is NOT going to win the MAC Tournament

Postby guest44 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:52 pm

Why the hell would we need to play him? We can’t get guards enough minutes as it is? Now if he played over Mattos maybe? The idea Chandler Turner matters to this team is ridiculous.

As for the record in the second half it’s simple. It’s coaching.
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