New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby TommyG » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:17 pm

Hockey John wrote:
TommyG wrote:I thought you blocked me? Go cry somewhere else.



I am not the one whining like a spoiled brat when people don't agree with you. Grow Up!


:butthead:
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby pdt1081 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:30 pm

TommyG wrote:Go complain about the refs....that’s about all you know.

Bowling Green begged and pleaded too....NCHC said no way. Only reason the WCHA let BG in had to do with NCAA voting rights. It helped the conference to have a true “D1” member.

Bottom line, this is a good thing unless your Huntsville or the Alaska schools.

Actually, no, BG did not beg or plead. They were too busy trying to salvage the CCHA. Bergeron was pissed simply because someone he considered a "friend" didn't pick up the phone and say "this is what we're doing."
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby TommyG » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:03 am

Actually, no, BG did not beg or plead. They were too busy trying to salvage the CCHA. Bergeron was pissed simply because someone he considered a "friend" didn't pick up the phone and say "this is what we're doing."[/quote]

Actually they did. Bergeron was initially upset that Rico didn’t keep him in the loop, but he quickly focused on joining the WCHA because it would be BG’s best chance to compete.
Greg Christopher did look into salvaging the CCHA initially, but that was clearly not possible. He and Mazey then pushed hard to be included in the NCHC with Western. They were left out because of the concern over commitment to the program. BG’s delaying to commit to the WCHA almost had them without a conference...privately many WCHA schools pushed to leave them out because 1. They felt BG was delaying as long as possible to hopefully be included in the NCHC, 2. There was initial concerns on travel costs. The WCHA allowed BG more time because of their full D1 affiliation. This would insure the WCHA’s inclusion for certainNCAA rule and regulation discussions and votes.

Believe what you want...the situation was surely fluid, but BG’s administration without question begged to be included with the NCHC. But then again I don’t know anything... Or do I???
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby BGFan » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:45 pm

Hockey John wrote:
TommyG wrote:I thought you blocked me? Go cry somewhere else.



I am not the one whining like a spoiled brat when people don't agree with you. Grow Up!


You are better off blocking him. His posts add nothing to the conversation and every time you respond to him not only do I have to see his inane posts you spur him on to keep making them.
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby TalonsUpPuckDown » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:45 pm

BGFan wrote:
Hockey John wrote:
TommyG wrote:I thought you blocked me? Go cry somewhere else.



I am not the one whining like a spoiled brat when people don't agree with you. Grow Up!


You are better off blocking him. His posts add nothing to the conversation and every time you respond to him not only do I have to see his inane posts you spur him on to keep making them.


+1
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby TommyG » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:54 pm

TalonsUpPuckDown wrote:
BGFan wrote:
Hockey John wrote:
TommyG wrote:I thought you blocked me? Go cry somewhere else.



I am not the one whining like a spoiled brat when people don't agree with you. Grow Up!


You are better off blocking him. His posts add nothing to the conversation and every time you respond to him not only do I have to see his inane posts you spur him on to keep making them.


+1


+2
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby TalonsUpPuckDown » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:00 am

Saw this link posted elsewhere and If I did my Google searching correctly, here are the candidates for the quote from the "coach, who is no longer in the WCHA, (who) floated the idea of a rebirth of the Central Collegiate Hockey Association back then, though when pressed about the seriousness of the discussions, he admitted it was nothing more than schools spitballing. Asked about our three-year-old conversation over the weekend and how that all finally came to fruition, he said, 'I’m surprised it took this long.'"

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sport ... iginal-Six

Code: Select all
WCHA Coaching Changes in the Last Three Years

Coach             Year Left  School
Chris Bergeron       2019    Bowling Green
Mel Person           2017    Michigan Tech
Walt Kyle            2017    Northern Michigan
Dallas Ferguson      2018    UAF
Lance West           2017    UAF
Matt Thomas          2018    UAA

Gotta believe it's Berge, Person, or Kyle.
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby TalonsUpPuckDown » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:09 pm

Been thinking about what the league might look like two years hence. Gotta believe us, NMU, MTU, FSU, and LSSU are locks. I suspect your crystal ball is as accurate as mine regarding Huntsville and/or Niagara and RMU and St. Thomas (or whatever they are). The real wildcard(s) in this are Mankato and Bemidji.

1) If the brains of this operation are smart, the Mankato-to-the-Nachos scenario was discussed and resolved prior to the announcement. One would also reason that Mankato and Bemidji are a pair in this. If Mankato bolts for the Nachos leaving Bemidji behind, they immediately become a geographic outlier and at risk. If I'm Bemidji, no way I'm going into this thing without knowing Mankato will be by my side the whole way. So the fates of Mankato and Bemidji are locked together.

2) Forget what their fans say...we all know about the rumblings from the money people in K'zoo and Oxford regarding travel (after all, they're still MAC schools). You'd have to believe the finance guys are doing their due diligence regarding a possible move. The question to answer is whether the cash from the Frozen Faceoff and Nacho TV are enough to offset the incremental travel costs. Who knows. But given geography, the travel hurts Miami more than it hurts Western. And reading SiouxSports.com you see the Nodak faithful have been asking the question "Why Miami?" for the past couple of years. Ruh roh...

3) What would this look like from the Nacho side? Well, Mankato has out-performed Western in the PWR for the past 3 seasons. And Bemidji has out-performed Miami for at least that long. And neither school contributes jack squat to the Frozen Faceoff revenue stream. We also know there's a multi-million dollar buy out if a team wants to bolt. However, if I'm Fenton, I should see an opportunity to lower overall costs for my league members by consolidating the geographic footprint. Allowing Miami and Western out for a reduced or eliminated exit fee and bringing in Mankato and Bemidji keeps me even on PWR and no worse than even on FF revenue. Denver and CC will moan about having to go to Bemidji, but they'll get over it given they don't have to go to K'zoo.

4) Conclusion: In two years Mankato and Bemidji either stay with us or go with the Nachos to be replaced by Western and Miami. The 8th spot remains a mystery for now.

Thoughts?
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby Hockey John » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:32 pm

TalonsUpPuckDown wrote:Been thinking about what the league might look like two years hence. Gotta believe us, NMU, MTU, FSU, and LSSU are locks. I suspect your crystal ball is as accurate as mine regarding Huntsville and/or Niagara and RMU and St. Thomas (or whatever they are). The real wildcard(s) in this are Mankato and Bemidji.

1) If the brains of this operation are smart, the Mankato-to-the-Nachos scenario was discussed and resolved prior to the announcement. One would also reason that Mankato and Bemidji are a pair in this. If Mankato bolts for the Nachos leaving Bemidji behind, they immediately become a geographic outlier and at risk. If I'm Bemidji, no way I'm going into this thing without knowing Mankato will be by my side the whole way. So the fates of Mankato and Bemidji are locked together.

2) Forget what their fans say...we all know about the rumblings from the money people in K'zoo and Oxford regarding travel (after all, they're still MAC schools). You'd have to believe the finance guys are doing their due diligence regarding a possible move. The question to answer is whether the cash from the Frozen Faceoff and Nacho TV are enough to offset the incremental travel costs. Who knows. But given geography, the travel hurts Miami more than it hurts Western. And reading SiouxSports.com you see the Nodak faithful have been asking the question "Why Miami?" for the past couple of years. Ruh roh...

3) What would this look like from the Nacho side? Well, Mankato has out-performed Western in the PWR for the past 3 seasons. And Bemidji has out-performed Miami for at least that long. And neither school contributes jack squat to the Frozen Faceoff revenue stream. We also know there's a multi-million dollar buy out if a team wants to bolt. However, if I'm Fenton, I should see an opportunity to lower overall costs for my league members by consolidating the geographic footprint. Allowing Miami and Western out for a reduced or eliminated exit fee and bringing in Mankato and Bemidji keeps me even on PWR and no worse than even on FF revenue. Denver and CC will moan about having to go to Bemidji, but they'll get over it given they don't have to go to K'zoo.

4) Conclusion: In two years Mankato and Bemidji either stay with us or go with the Nachos to be replaced by Western and Miami. The 8th spot remains a mystery for now.

Thoughts?


It would not surprise me one bit to see the league stay the current 7 plus. I can also easily see a swap with the NCHC to make to more geographically sound leagues. I would hope that Mankato has Bemidji's back. What I do know is that we will be in a better situation than we were before.
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby AZIce » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:34 pm

4) Conclusion: In two years Mankato and Bemidji either stay with us or go with the Nachos to be replaced by Western and Miami. The 8th spot remains a mystery for now.


The MSU/BSU for WMU/MU swap makes too much sense for all involved, but this is college hockey so common sense will be avoided I'm sure. :roll:


If anything the new league loses in that scenario, as like you said Mankato's average PWR over the last few years is much better than what either of the MAC schools have had. So maybe the NCHC will go for it since they seem to get the better side of the deal.

I can't help but think Bergeron is going to have a factor in this.....I know from conversations I've seen/heard him have he wants Miami, Western and BGSU in the same conference.
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby Schadenfreude » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:59 pm

AZIce wrote:
TalonsUpPuckDown wrote:4) Conclusion: In two years Mankato and Bemidji either stay with us or go with the Nachos to be replaced by Western and Miami. The 8th spot remains a mystery for now.


The MSU/BSU for WMU/MU swap makes too much sense for all involved, but this is college hockey so common sense will be avoided I'm sure. :roll:


If anything the new league loses in that scenario, as like you said Mankato's average PWR over the last few years is much better than what either of the MAC schools have had. So maybe the NCHC will go for it since they seem to get the better side of the deal.

I can't help but think Bergeron is going to have a factor in this.....I know from conversations I've seen/heard him have he wants Miami, Western and BGSU in the same conference.


I think that's a good analysis by TalonsUpPuckDown. I think Miami and Western Michigan have to look at this. The biggest reason to stay has always seemed to be these handcuffs known as the buyout. But if that can be negotiated down, maybe everyone wins here in a swap of the two Minnesota schools for the MAC schools.

As far as Bergeron: In his gut he may want the MAC schools together, but he also has to keep his bosses happy. We don't know where the Miami AD, the Miami president, or major donors are on this at all, do we? It's interesting to think maybe Bergeron could be a catalyst for good in this situation, but that doesn't seem certain.

Anyway, I see it playing out like this:

1. Step 1: See if the MAC schools want in on the new CCHA, perhaps as part of a trade for the two Minnesota schools.
2. Step 2: See if Pennsylvania or Western New York schools want in. Maybe two or three of the schools out there want a stronger conference.
3. Step 3: If an even number is needed or if we are still at seven after working steps 1 and 2, maybe consider adding one of Arizona State, Alabama-Huntsville, Alaska, or Alaska-Anchorage. One outlier might be doable, epsecially if it's Arizona State. (An annual hockey trip to Arizona shouldn't hurt recruiting. Academics there are sound. Only question is if they would be interested or if they have their heart set on the NCHC.)

The more I think about this, the more I think this is primarily a play to achieve Part 1 and come up with a more reasonable conference footprint.
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby TalonsUpPuckDown » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:52 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:
AZIce wrote:
TalonsUpPuckDown wrote:4) Conclusion: In two years Mankato and Bemidji either stay with us or go with the Nachos to be replaced by Western and Miami. The 8th spot remains a mystery for now.


The MSU/BSU for WMU/MU swap makes too much sense for all involved, but this is college hockey so common sense will be avoided I'm sure. :roll:


If anything the new league loses in that scenario, as like you said Mankato's average PWR over the last few years is much better than what either of the MAC schools have had. So maybe the NCHC will go for it since they seem to get the better side of the deal.

I can't help but think Bergeron is going to have a factor in this.....I know from conversations I've seen/heard him have he wants Miami, Western and BGSU in the same conference.


I think that's a good analysis by TalonsUpPuckDown. I think Miami and Western Michigan have to look at this. The biggest reason to stay has always seemed to be these handcuffs known as the buyout. But if that can be negotiated down, maybe everyone wins here in a swap of the two Minnesota schools for the MAC schools.

As far as Bergeron: In his gut he may want the MAC schools together, but he also has to keep his bosses happy. We don't know where the Miami AD, the Miami president, or major donors are on this at all, do we? It's interesting to think maybe Bergeron could be a catalyst for good in this situation, but that doesn't seem certain.

Anyway, I see it playing out like this:

1. Step 1: See if the MAC schools want in on the new CCHA, perhaps as part of a trade for the two Minnesota schools.
2. Step 2: See if Pennsylvania or Western New York schools want in. Maybe two or three of the schools out there want a stronger conference.
3. Step 3: If an even number is needed or if we are still at seven after working steps 1 and 2, maybe consider adding one of Arizona State, Alabama-Huntsville, Alaska, or Alaska-Anchorage. One outlier might be doable, epsecially if it's Arizona State. (An annual hockey trip to Arizona shouldn't hurt recruiting. Academics there are sound. Only question is if they would be interested or if they have their heart set on the NCHC.)

The more I think about this, the more I think this is primarily a play to achieve Part 1 and come up with a more reasonable conference footprint.


I like how you summed that up. The one variable I hadn't considered is your comment regarding major donors. Hmmmmm...need to ponder that as my knee jerk reaction is NFW will Miami State donors let them leave the Nachos.
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby rc_ziggy84 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:32 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
AZIce wrote:
TalonsUpPuckDown wrote:4) Conclusion: In two years Mankato and Bemidji either stay with us or go with the Nachos to be replaced by Western and Miami. The 8th spot remains a mystery for now.


The MSU/BSU for WMU/MU swap makes too much sense for all involved, but this is college hockey so common sense will be avoided I'm sure. :roll:


If anything the new league loses in that scenario, as like you said Mankato's average PWR over the last few years is much better than what either of the MAC schools have had. So maybe the NCHC will go for it since they seem to get the better side of the deal.

I can't help but think Bergeron is going to have a factor in this.....I know from conversations I've seen/heard him have he wants Miami, Western and BGSU in the same conference.


I think that's a good analysis by TalonsUpPuckDown. I think Miami and Western Michigan have to look at this. The biggest reason to stay has always seemed to be these handcuffs known as the buyout. But if that can be negotiated down, maybe everyone wins here in a swap of the two Minnesota schools for the MAC schools.

As far as Bergeron: In his gut he may want the MAC schools together, but he also has to keep his bosses happy. We don't know where the Miami AD, the Miami president, or major donors are on this at all, do we? It's interesting to think maybe Bergeron could be a catalyst for good in this situation, but that doesn't seem certain.

Anyway, I see it playing out like this:

1. Step 1: See if the MAC schools want in on the new CCHA, perhaps as part of a trade for the two Minnesota schools.
2. Step 2: See if Pennsylvania or Western New York schools want in. Maybe two or three of the schools out there want a stronger conference.
3. Step 3: If an even number is needed or if we are still at seven after working steps 1 and 2, maybe consider adding one of Arizona State, Alabama-Huntsville, Alaska, or Alaska-Anchorage. One outlier might be doable, epsecially if it's Arizona State. (An annual hockey trip to Arizona shouldn't hurt recruiting. Academics there are sound. Only question is if they would be interested or if they have their heart set on the NCHC.)

The more I think about this, the more I think this is primarily a play to achieve Part 1 and come up with a more reasonable conference footprint.


Good outline here. I’ve been thinking and saying for awhile now that the Bemidji & Mankato for Western and Miami swap makes sense. So much sense that it might not happen, but we’ll see.

I heard in a podcast that Arizona St might end up in Hockey East. It sounds counter intuitive, but the schools are similar their makeups and there are lots of direct flights to/from Boston where a lot of HE schools are centered around.
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby TalonsUpPuckDown » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:11 pm

Alaska legislature is not even close to overriding the governor's $130M line item veto...they can't even agree on where to meet. If they don't figure it out by Friday one would think neither AK team will be around to start the season. We have 6 games with the Alaska's this year including the double. Anyone close enough to the program know if scheduling contingencies are being kicked around and what they might look like?
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Re: New Hockey League...Realignment Starts Now

Postby rood » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:27 pm

TalonsUpPuckDown wrote:Alaska legislature is not even close to overriding the governor's $130M line item veto...they can't even agree on where to meet. If they don't figure it out by Friday one would think neither AK team will be around to start the season. We have 6 games with the Alaska's this year including the double. Anyone close enough to the program know if scheduling contingencies are being kicked around and what they might look like?

With an 8 team league the easy answer is a home series and an away series against each team for 28 home games. I don't know how much of the existing schedule would have to be scrapped but it doesn't seem like it would be insurmountable.
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